Government discussion

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Government discussion

Government discussion input was collected from the photos of SHA2017 orga meet. If your input was hard to read, it is not included. You are welcome to correct this text.




Recurring comments, in my opinion, were the following:

  • everyone is welcome to the help with the camp, given disclosure of possible conflict
  • limited government involvement in core orga, team Content and projetleiding
  • good relationship with government agencies can be beneficial (permits, orga skills)

Threats, minus points

  • the high risk teams shouldn't have people from law enforcement,

intelligence etc., divided about other teams and government

  • losing volunteers <-> impact unknown
  • conflicting loyalty
  • influence, sabotage, self-censorship
  • alienation of anarchists
  • *appearance* of conflict of interest
  • might give signal even if unintended
  • people afraid of them (mistrust)
  • community (OHM Foxit)
  • dangers, if any, exist only in team Content and Projectleiding
  • concentrated power
  • discussions
  • Should it open "government"?
  • Show stopper: people working in prosecuting areas, like police etc. in key position in the orga that requires sensitive information
  • government in team content
  • allow cops on the field

Opportunity, plus side

  • proxy, nice for permits, communication towards government
  • getting things done faster involving gov
  • showing non-discrimination opportunities
  • utilizing available resources
  • goodwill
  • showing that we are not "shady"
  • hacker-ambassadorship in you
  • representation of all people/ non-discrimination / being open
  • opening comms to gov, having ambassadors
  • freedom of assembly
  • public services
  • more orga
  • government organisational qualities and refenrences can benefit orga
  • government volunteers have to suddenly quit if their superiors don't agree with their activities
  • people in NL or other governments who can prosecute, arrest, are security service, are not allowed in core orga. Anyone else: disclose profession, possible conflicts of interest on your team


  • no government is (Leads) core orga
  • never trust authority
  • Endless discussion might be a show stopper
  • different conflicts of interest apply to different roles, government is not a good summary
  • orga members should disclose conflicts of interest; teamleads/sanity liasons keep track of team members
  • this needs more discussion
  • hacker doesn't mean criminal
  • be transparent
  • no criminals
  • no those with history of directly sabotaging hackers
  • less than 50% of one team should be from government or any other organisation
  • minimize government envolvement, police presence on site (scares people)
  • consensus in large group is impossible
  • no village for gov related elements
  • no gov or policy makers in orga
  • projectleiding decides, allowed to change their minds when new circumstances or concerns present themselves
  • government is not the right category-of-threats we should worry about (Figure: small overlap gov and threat)
  • the person needs to do it on their own time
  • everyone welcome to the event, but no ID checking and no recruiting
  • promote camp with joint interests, not common enemies
  • talks and presentations in exchange for money/permits
  • allowing organisations to use the camp for PR, which conflict with our goals
  • government is a stupid boundary to worry about
  • everybody can be in orga and core
  • orga must have process for this to work
  • historic opponents
  • some people shouldn't be in some positions
  • no AIUD, police, and the like, and also no Bayer, Monsanto etc. E corp; for the rest I am ok
  • no prosecuting instances in positions of trust, core orga (large)

and have a nice day :)

  • Image 4: Bad picture, unreadable